Heart & Art in Unison
Karni & Saul
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Hi both,
First, thanks for accepting our invite for this interview. Is there a story that captures the essence of how your team came into existence? Yes. It’s a long twisty story as they usually are, but in short. We were first a couple who met in art school in Israel many years ago. Karni a photographer and Saul animator. |
Portrait of Karni & Saul,
snapped by Yuli Freed - their kid |
We moved to the UK and worked on a tiny project together for Nick Knights show studio called “circus”. Small animations made from stills, which at the time was a very new concept. We showed it to some labels and reps and slowly we realized that people liked our joined forces... photographic work with touches of fantasy animation.
We made our first music video alone and with no budget, at home. It was for an instrumental piece called AM by Mike Fellows. We signed on to a rep. And the rest is history.
What was your initial objective/motto and has that changed through time?
We were making it up as we moved along. Mainly we wanted to make strong emotional beautiful things with a meaning. It’s probably never changed. But the descriptions got clearer - Your work sort of grows and tells you what you’re doing. It starts from your gut and heart to your head. Not the other way around. For creative projects, at least, it’s that way.
Also, we like to say we embrace imperfections! They make things real relatable and human.
How do you describe your filmmaking style?
When we were nominated for a BAFTA for our first short film “Turning”, they asked us what genre we were making. We had no idea... Instinctively we called our work “casual fantasy”. For lack of a good fit into a genre ;) It’s fantasy in a minimal natural way...maybe relaxed fantasy. It’s a hybrid of strong visuals, some fantasy, texture, grit, emotion, story telling... We like to take people on a ride. To make them feel. We don’t care what they feel but it must be something. And we want it to be eye candy, too. Visual pleasure, we call it. That doesn’t mean perfect and shiny. It means something we feel is an interesting and arresting visual world as this is a visual medium. We want people to enjoy the ride.
Creating a world is key.
Who are the artists and filmmakers whose work inspired you in your own creative path?
Too many to name!
But here are a few ....Tom Waits. Sally Potter. Francis Bacon. Frida Kahlo. 70s American Cinema, Woody Allen. Jill Soloway. Phil Malloy. Gregory Crewdson. Lynne Ramsay. Edward Gorey, Virginia Woolf. Hayao Miyazaki. Old Disney Films. Karen Dalton. Pina Bausch. Will Self. Ohad Naharin and Batsheva Dance Company. Hofesh Shechter. Wim Wenders. Nick Cassavetes. Sally Mann. Patti Smith. Marina Abramovich. Bob Dylan. ...... basically, anyone who paves his/her own path and makes his/her own art bravely and with heart.
Do Karni and Saul have distinct roles or do you collaborate and feed off each other’s energy and creative flow throughout the entire process on any given project?
Well that’s an interesting question .... We started off with very distinct roles. Saul was an animator and overview man. He was the grounded one. I was the photographic side, the live action and people side. But as the years pass and we make more projects, I have developed a really good eye for animation and Saul is great with directing and with people as well.
So, there is a lot more cross over, which is nice. It makes it broader and more interesting. But we can also step on each other’s toes. We mostly have very similar taste so it’s not usually a problem. But it can get feisty if we disagree... In some ways, we are each other’s first audience so I believe this might make our work stronger as we are brutally honest with each other.
We made our first music video alone and with no budget, at home. It was for an instrumental piece called AM by Mike Fellows. We signed on to a rep. And the rest is history.
What was your initial objective/motto and has that changed through time?
We were making it up as we moved along. Mainly we wanted to make strong emotional beautiful things with a meaning. It’s probably never changed. But the descriptions got clearer - Your work sort of grows and tells you what you’re doing. It starts from your gut and heart to your head. Not the other way around. For creative projects, at least, it’s that way.
Also, we like to say we embrace imperfections! They make things real relatable and human.
How do you describe your filmmaking style?
When we were nominated for a BAFTA for our first short film “Turning”, they asked us what genre we were making. We had no idea... Instinctively we called our work “casual fantasy”. For lack of a good fit into a genre ;) It’s fantasy in a minimal natural way...maybe relaxed fantasy. It’s a hybrid of strong visuals, some fantasy, texture, grit, emotion, story telling... We like to take people on a ride. To make them feel. We don’t care what they feel but it must be something. And we want it to be eye candy, too. Visual pleasure, we call it. That doesn’t mean perfect and shiny. It means something we feel is an interesting and arresting visual world as this is a visual medium. We want people to enjoy the ride.
Creating a world is key.
Who are the artists and filmmakers whose work inspired you in your own creative path?
Too many to name!
But here are a few ....Tom Waits. Sally Potter. Francis Bacon. Frida Kahlo. 70s American Cinema, Woody Allen. Jill Soloway. Phil Malloy. Gregory Crewdson. Lynne Ramsay. Edward Gorey, Virginia Woolf. Hayao Miyazaki. Old Disney Films. Karen Dalton. Pina Bausch. Will Self. Ohad Naharin and Batsheva Dance Company. Hofesh Shechter. Wim Wenders. Nick Cassavetes. Sally Mann. Patti Smith. Marina Abramovich. Bob Dylan. ...... basically, anyone who paves his/her own path and makes his/her own art bravely and with heart.
Do Karni and Saul have distinct roles or do you collaborate and feed off each other’s energy and creative flow throughout the entire process on any given project?
Well that’s an interesting question .... We started off with very distinct roles. Saul was an animator and overview man. He was the grounded one. I was the photographic side, the live action and people side. But as the years pass and we make more projects, I have developed a really good eye for animation and Saul is great with directing and with people as well.
So, there is a lot more cross over, which is nice. It makes it broader and more interesting. But we can also step on each other’s toes. We mostly have very similar taste so it’s not usually a problem. But it can get feisty if we disagree... In some ways, we are each other’s first audience so I believe this might make our work stronger as we are brutally honest with each other.
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What do you consider a challenge? What is a walk in the park?
Nothing is a walk in the park. ;) We wouldn’t want it to be. But lots of it we enjoy. A lot!... Even while we suffer. Ha! It’s a bit like childbirth sometimes... Each film is a small baby. It’s a ride, it’s a journey... It gets dirty and crazy and emotional and sometimes out of control. But then you have a small celluloid baby and you are super happy and proud. Whatever the journey. We are emotional people and artistic and we “do it like we mean it”. So, it’s not always easy. But we wouldn’t swap it for anything in the world. We say we have three babies. Our two love heart boys and the third one is our films..., for sure.
The hardest bit in animation is usually the lack of time and money...in live action, it’s lack of time and money too. But maybe that’s the drive. It’s what pushes you to be creative and think out the box.
Your film for Katie Melua's 'Perfect World' won this year's Best Animation Award and you called it casual fantasy. Is what you define ‘casual fantasy’ your most favorite way to transmit messages and ideas in film/animation?
Yes, that was fun! Well, weirdly when we called it casual fantasy someone said it doesn’t look casual at all... So when we describe our work that way it’s in a metaphor and in meaning. It doesn’t account for the amount of work, hard labor, sweat, tears and nights we put into it. Don’t get us wrong, we are ambitious and love great looking, strong work. But what we mean is the way we address fantasy is casual... no big deal. We just love it in the work we make. A touch of magic. Surreal fantasy. We don’t want the everyday or a doc but we don’t want it to be a labyrinth either.
Creating worlds and fantasy is an escape, for us, too. We try making it believable by giving it real textures or a mix of some natural feeling and surroundings. It makes you feel at home and it’s easier to digest and believe in the fantasy that way.
Get swallowed up, and then spat out....ideally.
How are you feeling about 2019? How will that be reflected in your current work?
When we left Israel many years ago, we never wanted to touch on politics or reality. We were into escapism...for obvious reasons. But maybe as we get older and now that we have kids things matter more to us.
The world is in chaos. We wanna say things that matter. Maybe we will make a doc with some animation. Maybe we will make more charity films or address the place we come from in some way. Metaphorically I think we do that already. Who knows.
Meanwhile, we just finished our first feature script for the British Film Institute adapted from a short story by Will Self. We are very excited about that.
We are also developing some animated series. We are making music videos and commercials. We just finished an animated music video 'Sad Heart' for Sivan Talmor, an Israeli singer, that follows a woman on her journey on a sound wave.
Separately, Saul makes children’s books and illustrations. Karni makes dance and fashion films. She is working on more female centered photoshoots and photographic essays.
Who knows what 2019 will bring. That unknown is part of the fear and excitement. We just hold tight and try to enjoy the ride.
What are you most looking forward to in the coming weeks and months?
Hopefully starting working on our animated kids series, making a music video for a female artist we admire, who just contacted us, which is always nice, collaborating with Micah P Hinson on a project, and possibly starting to move on the feature film track.
It’s also about making things every day, even if it’s just a sketch or a photograph. That’s what keeps us ticking.
We have two new ongoing campaigns and it would be awesome if you gave us your take on both or either one of them?
#BeatTheBlues features works and confessions of artists and non-artists about experiences and ways to beat the blues and rise from the depth of darkness.
Make stuff. Take pictures keep a diary, sketch, sculpt. I try to make something small every day. Just for myself. And it keeps you creative and active. It’s free. No client or brief. It needs no budget and it is very satisfying. It’s in the little things, visual pleasure. It’s like sowing seeds. Who knows what will grow of it.
Oh, and dance! Dance with your kids or alone. I (Karni) do it to Florence and the Machine with my 4-year-old. It’s therapy to a tune.
#WhatMatters A paragraph about what matters to you the most at this point in time and how does your work and life reflect that.
HEART. It’s all about caring. About love and emotion. The visual is important, of course, but if it hasn’t got a heartbeat, it’s dead. We follow our gut and heart at every turn. That’s why we’ll never be rich. But we will be more satisfied we believe, we hope. It’s important to show our kids, ourselves and each other and the world around us.
Be kind! Think with your heart, not your head. All is love.
For more, you can find us Www.sulkybunny.com or Www.Krispykarni.com
Thank you and Good Luck!
Nothing is a walk in the park. ;) We wouldn’t want it to be. But lots of it we enjoy. A lot!... Even while we suffer. Ha! It’s a bit like childbirth sometimes... Each film is a small baby. It’s a ride, it’s a journey... It gets dirty and crazy and emotional and sometimes out of control. But then you have a small celluloid baby and you are super happy and proud. Whatever the journey. We are emotional people and artistic and we “do it like we mean it”. So, it’s not always easy. But we wouldn’t swap it for anything in the world. We say we have three babies. Our two love heart boys and the third one is our films..., for sure.
The hardest bit in animation is usually the lack of time and money...in live action, it’s lack of time and money too. But maybe that’s the drive. It’s what pushes you to be creative and think out the box.
Your film for Katie Melua's 'Perfect World' won this year's Best Animation Award and you called it casual fantasy. Is what you define ‘casual fantasy’ your most favorite way to transmit messages and ideas in film/animation?
Yes, that was fun! Well, weirdly when we called it casual fantasy someone said it doesn’t look casual at all... So when we describe our work that way it’s in a metaphor and in meaning. It doesn’t account for the amount of work, hard labor, sweat, tears and nights we put into it. Don’t get us wrong, we are ambitious and love great looking, strong work. But what we mean is the way we address fantasy is casual... no big deal. We just love it in the work we make. A touch of magic. Surreal fantasy. We don’t want the everyday or a doc but we don’t want it to be a labyrinth either.
Creating worlds and fantasy is an escape, for us, too. We try making it believable by giving it real textures or a mix of some natural feeling and surroundings. It makes you feel at home and it’s easier to digest and believe in the fantasy that way.
Get swallowed up, and then spat out....ideally.
How are you feeling about 2019? How will that be reflected in your current work?
When we left Israel many years ago, we never wanted to touch on politics or reality. We were into escapism...for obvious reasons. But maybe as we get older and now that we have kids things matter more to us.
The world is in chaos. We wanna say things that matter. Maybe we will make a doc with some animation. Maybe we will make more charity films or address the place we come from in some way. Metaphorically I think we do that already. Who knows.
Meanwhile, we just finished our first feature script for the British Film Institute adapted from a short story by Will Self. We are very excited about that.
We are also developing some animated series. We are making music videos and commercials. We just finished an animated music video 'Sad Heart' for Sivan Talmor, an Israeli singer, that follows a woman on her journey on a sound wave.
Separately, Saul makes children’s books and illustrations. Karni makes dance and fashion films. She is working on more female centered photoshoots and photographic essays.
Who knows what 2019 will bring. That unknown is part of the fear and excitement. We just hold tight and try to enjoy the ride.
What are you most looking forward to in the coming weeks and months?
Hopefully starting working on our animated kids series, making a music video for a female artist we admire, who just contacted us, which is always nice, collaborating with Micah P Hinson on a project, and possibly starting to move on the feature film track.
It’s also about making things every day, even if it’s just a sketch or a photograph. That’s what keeps us ticking.
We have two new ongoing campaigns and it would be awesome if you gave us your take on both or either one of them?
#BeatTheBlues features works and confessions of artists and non-artists about experiences and ways to beat the blues and rise from the depth of darkness.
Make stuff. Take pictures keep a diary, sketch, sculpt. I try to make something small every day. Just for myself. And it keeps you creative and active. It’s free. No client or brief. It needs no budget and it is very satisfying. It’s in the little things, visual pleasure. It’s like sowing seeds. Who knows what will grow of it.
Oh, and dance! Dance with your kids or alone. I (Karni) do it to Florence and the Machine with my 4-year-old. It’s therapy to a tune.
#WhatMatters A paragraph about what matters to you the most at this point in time and how does your work and life reflect that.
HEART. It’s all about caring. About love and emotion. The visual is important, of course, but if it hasn’t got a heartbeat, it’s dead. We follow our gut and heart at every turn. That’s why we’ll never be rich. But we will be more satisfied we believe, we hope. It’s important to show our kids, ourselves and each other and the world around us.
Be kind! Think with your heart, not your head. All is love.
For more, you can find us Www.sulkybunny.com or Www.Krispykarni.com
Thank you and Good Luck!
